Monday, 2 January 2012

Hungary, Catholicism and Nationhood

On Saturday I wrote in regard to Catholicism and Nationalism from a Welsh point of view.

According to Rorate Caeli the Hungarian government seems to agree:

We are proud that our king Saint Stephen built the Hungarian State on solid ground and made our country a part of Christian Europe one thousand years ago.
We recognise the role of Christianity in preserving nationhood.
They go on to defend marriage as between a man and a woman (radical dude!) and the right of life from conception (liberals are a-fainting!)

Thank God for Hungary!


  1. It quite reminds me on the 1937 Irish Constitution (which our current govt want to tear up and replace). I think nationalism can be very healthy for a community to reinvigorate itself. I'd certainly like to see Wales as an independent nation, but would you have it as a republic or a monarchy?

  2. Well, I am not anti-monarchist per se (after all Heaven is a monarchy) but as with medieval monarchs (Henry, Elizabeth...) there has to be checks and balances, fecause a benign monarch can be wonderful, but a malign one is terrible.

    I think because the Welsh monarchs were killed off 800 years ago it would be questionable to try and recreate that, so a republic would be most likely.

    Thankfully whilst the Catholic Church might have preferences for styles of government, it does not say that a particular style (monarchy, parliamentary, republic, democracy, etc.) is condemned; rather the ethos of the government (tyrannical or "free") can be condemned if it is anti-Catholic. That's my understanding.

  3. Hungary is fast becoming a totalitarian, uncompromising, fascistic state!

    I refer you to the blog of Hungarian born poet George Szirtes:

    "Thank God for Hungary" - I don't think so.

  4. Uncompromising sounds interesting in THIS world.

    I haven't seen anything on Catholic blogs in the Hungarian statement that is unCatholic.

    It promotes the family, rejects the idea of homosexuals constituting a 'family', defends life from conception.

    That has more to commend it than the UK, in which MILLIONS of innocents have been murdered in the womb, and in which "homosexual marriage" (sic) is on the governments' agendas - come what may.

    Are you in favour of abortion and homosexual marriage?

    There is nothing on that website which delineates how Hungary is becoming "fascist" unless it is just another of the buzz words flung around by the chattering classes.

  5. "Are you in favour of abortion and homosexual marriage?"

    Er, no...your point being?!

    It frightens me when fellow Catholics clutch at straws - especially totalitarian ones - to suit their own narrow agendas, as they believe that they - and not the Church itself - are the fountain of all truth.

    The logic of your comment is quite simple - and chilling - Hungary can be as undemocratic and totalitarian as it wants, as long as it leaves the Catholic Church alone.

  6. My point beiung that Hungary is making a stand against sodomite "marriage" and abortion. That is enough to make it an enemy of many powerful vested interests.

    You are twisting what I said. Being totalitarian and undemocratic is - in and of itself not unCatholic. If it is done in a totally benign fashion and with the Common Good and Christ's Kingship as its aim. But human nature being human nature this rarely happens.

    Absolute monarchy, for example, is not condemned by the Church, but it is wary of it because it can lead to persecution of Christ, His Church and his mystical body (us).

    democracy is not necassarily Catholic either - as the widespread avaiability of abortion in "democracies" makes plain.

    I do not favour totalitarianism, because it can become as malign as it is as likely to be benign, but neither do I fawn over many democracies. But as yet you and the poet you cite have yet to show how Hungary is going against Catholicism.

    Empty slogans don't wash either.

    What matters is whether a society is Catholic, i.e. caring for the rights of workers and the poor; against unjust wars; defending the family; defending human life; defending the right to property.

    It is in being Catholic that validates a government, not in whether it leaves the Church alone! Otherwise we might say the worst Communist regime or the worst democratic government that promotes mass abortion is "OK" if the churches aren't closed down...

    I have yet to see evidence that Hungary is "fascist" and in what ways this "fascism" goes against Catholicism, Catholic Social Teaching etc.