Tuesday, 20 March 2012

Fabrice Muamba: The Atheists Order Us Not To Pray!

Fabrice Muamba: How offensive can prayer be?
Further to my last post an official atheist (on what criteria I know not) was on the Jeremy Vine show today on Radio Two, telling the world and its sister why praying for Fabrice Muamba (the Bolton footballer who collapsed and whose heart stopped working) was a waste of time.

He told us that we shouldn't be "wasting our time" praying. Rather we should all write to our MPs to say how important the NHS is.

The dimwit (excuse my intemperate language, but he was a dimwit) doesn't seem to grasp that we can pray and write letters. Moreover, those who refused to pray for the collapsed footballer -- how many of them actually wrote a letter to their MP, and how would that impact - there and then - on Muamba?

The atheist spokesman came across as very bitter and twisted. Especially when Muamba's relatives have thanked everyone for their prayers. With one of them (his sister or fiancé, I'm not sure) even saying 'keep praying - the prayers are working.' Even his footballing friends (hardly known as a rule for their asceticism or religiosity) asking for the prayers of fans and the public.

No! The atheists would rather we did not pray. It is an affront to their sensibilities, their rationale and heir pride. Never mind what we all want to do, never mind what the family and friends want, never mind what Fabrice Muamba himself might want.

The atheists always seem to know best - and always seem to want to get involved when people offer their prayers, their time, as a gesture of goodwill, or love, of friendship... Here again we see how atheists always want Christians to "shut up" yet when the family of a very sick young man wish for all our prayers, they charge in and slap down the family and everyone who is helping in this way. It's not as if Christians are stopping mid-prayer to assault the doctors and nurses to stop them helping the footballer!

It seems the atheists just find prayer offensive, find God offensive, find Jesus Christ offensive and find the beliefs of all Christians offensive. That is the Truth of the matter. The atheists are free to believe that our prayers have helped Muamba recover, or not. But they are not free to order us to shut up. They might wish they were - that road leads to the gulag.

19 comments:

  1. As the power of prayer has now been shown to work,maybe this god of yours (it would be interesting to know how you chose him out of the 10,000 or so available to you?)can start saving the starving millions in Africa,they get prayed for everyday by millions of people and he ignores those prayers,maybe he could wipe out cancer or aids,if he has this power then why confine it to saving professional footballers (sorry,i forget he saved the Chilean miners too!!) Grow up and wake up,there is no god,deal with it.

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    1. Starvation in Africa is very often man-made, the wonderful men you seem to think hold answers to everything. Who knows why cancer and AIDS exist? Man is mortal, and if you are looking for answers I suggest you book into a seminary.

      You may not believe in God, but one day you will still have to stand before Him and answer to Him.

      As for God, He sent His only Son, Jesus Christ. He established one Church, and that Church is the Catholic Church which has outlasted all empires, all nations.

      God sends His people to Africa to help; wth agriculture, education, self-sufficiency and much more.

      Sadly atheists come along and foment wars, revolutions, the love of money creates corruption, etc. etc.

      God gives man all he needs - man chooses to take, destroy, burn, kill - and more.

      It seems your rage should be against man and not God.

      Oh and btw as anyone who has widely read would know, God often intercedes for those who truly believe, repent, make sacrifices etc... but many of these people are not wealthy, famous or sportsmen so you probably haven't heard of them.

      But above all, why is it you atheists always come across as so negative and bitter? If you can confirm you send every penny to Africa and indeed are out there right now working for the poor, then I will bow to your right to whinge at others.

      But I suspect as with those who raged against Mother Theresa, you are just bitter and angry at God, when it is man who has made the world a mess.

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    2. Who causes earthquakes then?

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    3. Some people say man does via his sinfulness, disobedience to God and rebellion against God. I suggest you ask your priest the next time you are in Confession.

      Of course the thought that we could die any day (whether earthquake, car accident or stroke) should make us all be more aware of our mortality and eager to live in a state of Grace, if not because we Love God, then at least because we fear His Judgement.

      There are to my knowledge quite a lot of sound Catholic books on why God allows suffering. You might search one out. They will answer your queries far better than I can.

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  2. Your sense of importance in this unimaginably huge universe is insane.Maybe the theory of evolution is not true as you haven't fully evolved,brain-wise atleast.Sad and totally outmoded bronze age thinking.

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    1. And your intense bitterness just because others wish to pray to the God who made that same universe and gave us all the gift of life shines through!

      Oh to witness the suck-on-a-lemon visages of the rent-a-gob ataheists as people prayed for a young man who had collapsed on a football field.

      I think the sad thing is that you can't accept that everyone can pray, everyone has the ear of God, even (or especially!) the lowliest, the destitute and the sinner. Whereas to be an atheist seems to be all about proving how great and clever you are... so much cleverer than us dumb Bronze Age/medieval/Dark Age/18th century [delete as applicable] Catholics who just want to do our best, struggle against the current (which makes us living beings!) and pray to Our Lord for help, succour, guidance and out of sheer awe because we realise just how insignificant, weak and prone to sin we are.

      Proud to be outmoded!

      P.S. while you're there please furnish evidence of evolution - still looking for that missing link?

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  3. Retard.It is not even worth trying to talk to you about something you have no proof of but i must say that i respect you for letting me post my comments but i really do think that you are retarded.Cheers mate,peace out.

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    1. And there speaks the voice of liberal tolerance!

      I can prove, for example, that homosexuality, abortion and drugs do great damage to society, communities but most of all the individuals - and yet liberals chose to ignore such self-evident proof.

      Seems they want to have their cake and eat it.

      Still no proof of the missing link btw [nor how a piece of lifeless mud "evolved" into the human eye, let alone the brain, nervous system etc.]

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    2. You don't believe in evolution,a fact of nature with massive amounts of proof to back it up?
      You believe in your silly little fairytale which was made up before we understood not a lot really!! How did you choose your personal one from the thousands available?
      Would it be down to your birthplace and your parents bullshit preference? Ofcourse it is and yours just happens to be the real one like everyone thinks theirs is the real one.Ridiculous and backward,you are living in a dreanworld.I live in the realworld,i am kind,considerate and do all i can to help others,i don't need a pretend deity that will send me to burn and be tortured for eternity if i don't worship at his imaginary feet.He sounds like a jolly nice chap.

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    3. Timothy! Can't help thinking of Ronnie Corbett in the TV series 'Sorry'...

      Your rudeness and outrage belies someone unsure of themself (and anyone who postulates on their kindness etc. on the internet is either self-deluded, puffed full of their own ego, or a fool). Whatever you think of me is an irrelevance.

      God made you. One day you will have to stand before Him. Reject Him now, and He will reject you. It's as simple as that. He has given you free will. It would be in your interest to see past all the old lies and humbug that you and 1001 variety of atheists spout and have spoted since the Church was founded by Our Lord, Jesus Christ.

      You claim to be individualists yet you all run with the crowd shouting "we are all individuals" like some Monty Python sketch.

      It is your choice to reject your maker Who created you, yet you pour bile and scorn on Him because He has forewarned (out of His Charity) that those who so choose face Hell. He has also offered you Paradise.

      So go worship at the false idol that is "choice" - for in so choosing to unfurl the banner 'Non Serviam' you are freely choosing to reject God and Heaven and rather be with the rebelious spirits who chose Hell.

      Of course I and every Catholic would rather you did not, but out of pride, spite, arrogance - you call it - you will do it all the same because you hate God, you hate the Word of God (Jesus Christ) who was with Him in the beginning, and you hate the very Church He founded to be with us and offer the Sacrifice of the Mass until the end of time.


      P.S. When you can provide proof - the missing link for a start! - instead of old lies and empty posturing: please get back to me, otherwise your faith (evolution) is far more vacuous than mine, and empty vessels really do make the most noise.

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  4. It is not my fault my name comes up as Timothy !! You can call me Tim!!
    Evolution is not a faith it is fact and is supported by science.My disbelief of your god is absolutely no different to your lack of belief in Zeus so surely you must understand how it feels to not believe in something.You and i agree on the lack of thousands of gods,you just believe in one more than me.All of these thousands of gods billions of believers believed or still believe just as passionately as you do and you think they are all wrong.I happen to think you are all wrong.
    I thought you would like the name Timothy as it out of that silly book that you pretend to read.Peace out,Tim.x

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    1. You still offer no evidence, just empty words. Where is the missing link? A lump of lifeless mud magics itself into a human eyeball? You profess science etc. yet it is illogical. Oh it happened over millions or billions or trillions of years. More guesswork. More leaps of faith.

      As always with atheists you profess love and piece yet seem very wound up and angry. "silly book you profess to read" -- oooooh Timothy! So barbed!

      Were you one of the ones who said no-one wanted the Pope to visit - then had suck on a lemon when hundreds of thousands turned out to see the leader of Christ's Church on earth? [more than would ever turn out to see Obama or similar].

      You can rant on all you want. As my kids tell me - there are no atheists in foxholes.

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    2. I have rarely spoken out in the past, but as I have read and listened further to both sides of the equation, I have gotten angrier and angrier about how religions treat other people. I cannot speak for tim, for the source of his own anger, but I know where mine comes from and it is NOT because religious people practice being kind and patience, but the exact opposite.

      I'll address your last post here first. First off, your line about supporting evidence of an absence of a god is false. We do not need proof that your god doesn't exist, YOU need to provide proof that he DOES exist.

      Otherwise, I could pull the same trick on you, stating that there is a flying spaghetti monster or a teacup in space. The fact you do NOT believe in them means you will be tortured and destroyed utterly. I could spout this all day, claiming that I am right. But that doesn't mean I am. That would just defines me as insane.

      Wikipedia - Insanity: "In modern usage insanity is most commonly encountered as an informal unscientific term denoting mental instability."

      I do not know your exact standing or understanding of science is, but the most basic principles that science works is by observation of testable and predictable results. In other words, if you drop an object, it will fall to the ground. Are there exceptions? Certainly! If you dropped an object in space, it wouldn't fall, it would stay right where you left it, unless something was to ACT upon it.

      What this means towards insanity, is that someone believes something, when all critical and observations, experiments, and predictions say will/should not happen.

      Now, many people come with the counter argument that supernatural can override science. This is false. The reason being, is that if an event outside of our current understanding of the world was to occur, such as 'magic' or 'spells', this would not discount science or that the supernatural overrides science, but that our knowledge of the world is expanded and this new information will be investigated to understand the 'how' something works.

      So, if a god (you'rs isn't the only one out there believed by people) were to show itself and offer indisputable proof (multiple times, science needs repetition) that they exist, scientists the world over, and many atheists, would readily believe them to be real. But I would only consider them to be more powerful beings than ourselves, not a 'god'.

      Like tim said, you don't believe in Zeus or other supposed gods, and why is that? Because your bible says he is the only one? Or because no evidence has ever been found for their existence?

      Atheists are practical, in most cases. We want proof and evidence and DO NOT need to provide the proof or evidence that a god does not exist. We need proof that they DO! (pointing at the bible is insufficient proof for many reasons I won't get into at this time, and neither are 'miracles')


      As for evolution, how is it illogical? Do you even understand the principles and maths, to say that their answers are illogical? The only reasoning most creationist give is that the bible says so. They provide no proof or evidence to back it up. Any proof or evidence they HAVE tried to provide, has been shot down. Look at chimps and humans for example, most creationists say we cannot have evolved from apes because they have more chromosomes then us. Guess what, they found the reason why is that two of their chromosomes merged together when we evolved.

      Creationist often ask (smuggly) 'how come apes aren't human than?' It's a simple reason. Why do you have cousins? Distant cousins? Why is there an America while there is still Britain? Why are there different sects of christians if they all came from the same source? It is the EXACT SAME PROCESS AS EVOLUTION!

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    3. As I started, I cannot speak for tim's source of anger, but I will speak from mine.

      I am all for love, peace, lessening of suffering on others, and many others. But that doesn't mean I can't get angry at injustice.

      The catholic church's stance on condoms in Africa, protecting guilty clergymen of sexual rape of youth, and many other things are just part of what angers me. The catholic church is far from the only guilty party. Many other religious groups do deeds just as heinous, cruel, and despicable. But since the catholic church is one of the most public, it is often used as a point of reference.

      And I don't consider your book to be silly. I consider it a book about cruelty, slavery, genocide, misogyny, murder, and more. And most of these acts were sanctioned or instructed by god to do. Here's just a few examples (there are many, many more):

      Genocide - Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Plagues of Egypt (the last one especially).

      Slavery - (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

      Misogyny - Genesis 3:16, Deuteronomy 22:20-21, Leviticus Chapter 12: 1-8

      For a decent list, though based on the url I doubt you will ever look at it: http://www.evilbible.com/


      All of this brings into question the validity of mortality from the bible. Christians say they have the moral high ground, but I call utter (choose your own angry/negative word again). Almost all of the advances in morality HAVE NOT been from religion or the bible, but outside of it. The religions ADOPT them as their own religion, not the other way around. And most of these advancements, such as free-speech, right to vote, and civil rights of women or those of other ethic backgrounds, have more than often, been fought by religion, more than supported it.

      Are there good points in your book? Yes. But they are far from unique or the origin of the idea. The Hindu and Babylonians came up with the same concept. In fact, it is not very different from the common phrase 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth'.

      Religions as a whole, have not provided a single thing towards the advancement of human-kind (not going to say man-kind). That doesn't mean religious people cannot have done good in the world, but that is not due to their religion that this occurs.

      Additionally, science, as we understand it, has done more for human-kind in the last several hundred years, than all religions combined for their entire existence. Science, as the practice of practical observation for predictable results.

      This is for practical evidence of good for human-kind, not the belief that it is better off as religions spout. You have 0 evidence, besides your bible (which is not evidence), that there is an after-life or a god. Though, the evidence you DO point towards, tells me he is a terrible and cruel god.

      Even if your god WAS real, I still would not bow or scrape to such a cruel being. Just like I wouldn't serve Hitler. I would gladly serve eternity in hell than the alternative. But that would only apply if it was real in the first place, which you have not provided proof that it is.

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  5. I have Faith in God. I believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the Church He established. I have plenty of proof of God's existence -- I can cite the mystics, the Saints, the doctors of the Church, all of whom make your (and my) semi-literate ramblings pale into significance.

    I can cite the atheists who gathered to pour scorn on the Queen of Heaven at Fatima only to witness the miracle and fall on their knees.

    I can cite the evidence of the media men of Paris who gathered to see a "great man's" funeral who witnessed the decesaed sit up and ask them not to pray for him as he was already in Hell.

    The Catholic Church was established by Jesus Christ and all heresies have lashed it and tried to break it. It is the Church of the new Covenant established by Jesus Christ.

    You can choose to ignore it, attack it, decry it and lampoon it. But it will change as much as if a man should say that he doesn't believe in oxygen or gravity. It just comes across as the angry, twisted, bitter ramblings of people who for personal reasons choose to hate and loathe Jesus Christ and the Church He established.

    If you choose that then I feel sorry for you because like it or not one day YOU will stand before the God who CREATED you, whom YOU have chosen to REJECT. Yet you get all prissy and throw your toys out of your pram because on that day you will be condemned to Hell.

    It is YOUR choice to reject God, and it is because of the free will you have been given by God which He hopes men will come to know,love and worship Him, that you make it certain of the judgement.

    You can turn aside at ANY point. The Confessional is open to all. The Sacraments are given by God to all humanity.

    Yet those who choose to reject God get all angry because He will judge them. Go figure.




    Part Two to follow.

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    1. As for evolution - show me the missing link and I will be converted. if you cannot then please desist as I have heard it all before and it fails to convince me. I am the product of comprehensive science lessons that rammed evolutionism down my throat as if it were an absolute truth. A piece of mud cannot come to life any more than it can produce the intricacies of the human eye. That miracle of mud coming alive was not witnessed by or by any -- yet you choose to believe it and proselytise on its behalf.

      On the contrary I can tell you of miracles to do with the Blessed Sacrament that prove what it is -- from the Freemasons sent to steal the Sacrament who saw Christ Crucified as the Host was elevated, to the priest who doubted the Truth and the sacrament changed to actual human flesh.

      But as someone interested in 'rationalism' all this wll be shrugged off by you (yet you continue to believe in the miracle of life from nothing).

      GK Chesterton said that democracy disenfranchises our ancestors. You can gather with all the atheists you want (empty vessels make the most noise), few of whom will agree with each other (like a herd of cats) but the great number of Catholics - including your own forefathers - will always outnumber your output. But then I believe in a Church Militant, Church Suffering and a Church Triumphant as opposed to animals (with carbon footprints naturally!) who just rot to nothing.

      Let's not even think about the falling away of morality that has come about ever since more people think they will not have to answer for their actions (and inactions) before their Creator. Of course this growing immorality impacts on peoples' lives creating more and more misery, more anger at a Church that dares to speak an unchaged and eternal truth, and even more unhappiness in the midst of material wealth. You see atheism has no answers and people NEED spiritual answers.

      Perhaps the best summation of all was in the recent tirades against the CofE when it dared to speak out against the oxymoron that is 'Gay marriage'. Whilst espousing love, equality and all the rest of the catch phrases, the response on twitter, on newspaper websites etc. was an outpouring of bile, hate, profanity, abuse and outright filth.

      That tells me more about the modern world of atheists and the anti-God brigade than anything their sponsored mouthpieces present.

      I do not pretend that the people who make up the Church are perfect. We are all products of our Fallen nature, our concupisence which equates us with every human (apart from Christ and His Mother) throughout history: Catholic and non-Catholic, poor and rich, ancient or modern.

      Our Church has policemen and thieves, virgins and prostitutes, politicians and honest men: the point is that we are humans, we are people, we are sinners - but we are fighting, with the help of the Sacraments, to be better (though often failing).

      Our founder was perfect, His Church bears His imprint. Yet it is a body comprised of Saints and Sinners,otherwise the Confessionals would gather dust.

      If you decide to join me in the queue for the Confessional I will be overjoyed. I'll even let you go in front of me (to avoid a long wait if you're behind me!).

      You'll excuse me if I don't often reply in such depth to your coments but as a (youngish) father and someone who's self-employed I have less and less time for this kind of thing.

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  6. Oh P.S. condoms to NOT stop AIDS and disease, any more than they stop unwanted pregnancies.

    Where condoms are widespread they INCREASE pre-marial sex and sex outside of marriage, and the number of ABORTIONS INCREASES. Look at the UK. More condoms, more promiscuity, more disease, more abortion.

    THAT is the answer. You should read what Catholics say and not what atheists say about the Catholic position.

    Pouring Condoms into Africa and Catholic countries will make a bad situation worse.

    As for child abuse, you may know that we (I and other traditional-minded Catholics) have criticised the modern(ist) hierarchy (primarily under JP2) that failed to deal with the child abuse.

    Many have said the root of this was opening up the seminaries to homosexuals and moving away from the Church's historic strict rules against homosexuality in its own ranks - hypocrisy will always breed such problems (in any organisation of men).

    That is not to say that a violently anti-Catholic media has not pushed an anti-Catholic mesage by using the terrible cases to batter all priests.

    A friend in Ireland has also cited the case of many people who were not abused coming forward to get compensation, and so the numbers are increased.

    However, the abuse scandal has done great damage to the Church (its victims being Catholics of course - so I have more reason to be angry than you!). I believe in capital punishment for people convicted of child abuse (most are homosexual, but that is a related side issue) and I would hope of course you would feel similarly.

    Of course any man convicted should have the right of appeal etc. and the ability to make his peace with God.

    Christ Himself said that it would be better that a man had never been born than to harm one of his innocents. I am sure that applies to evil abortionists as much as evil paedophiles.

    Perhaps some Biblical scholar will deal with your issues over The Bible as I am not a Bible Scholar and am about to settle down with a beer to watch England play Italy.

    Cheers!

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  8. Timothy decided to vent his spleen again, but this time showed his true colours by inserting profanity and vulgarity. I deleted his posts.

    Why is it those who espouse "love, tolerance, equality" (French Revolution anyone?) always descend the fastest into hatred, intollerance and slapping down those who refuse to obey their new (anti)religion?

    How soon the French Revolution became the Red Terror. How quickly the equality promised in 1917 gave way to the gulag and the torture centres of the NKVD/OGPU/KGB.

    It's not so much 'once bitten, twice shy' as: umpteen times bitten - never again!

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